HerTake: Missing Friendships with the Opposite Sex

HerTake: Missing Friendships with the Opposite Sex

Today’s question comes from a married woman who misses having close friendships with men.

Do you have a question for Nina? Use our anonymous form. You can read Nina’s answers to past questions here.

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Dear Nina,

I have many wonderful friendships with women right now, friendships that are deep and intense and born from commonalities such as motherhood and life as a writer. These friendships provide essential sustenance for me, they fuel me through my days, my weeks. They are a constant presence; they shape much of who I am at the moment.

I have very few friendships with men—basically none. When I was younger, my best friend in high school was a boy. I had a great friend in graduate school, who was male as well. I am fully capable, in other words, of Platonic relationships with members of the opposite sex. The issue, it seems, is that as I have gotten older, as I have become more confident—and more set—in my ways, as my family situation has changed, my requirements for friendship have changed accordingly—though, to be fair, I’ve never been a big fan of casual interaction. I know the kinds of conversations I like to have. I know the degree of loyalty and intimacy and emotional intelligence I find necessary. And I don’t really have any men in my life who fit the mold.

I’m not making a universal claim about the differences between men and women, though I do think there is something to the Mars/Venus divide. But if I were being perfectly honest, since having kids, my view of men has dimmed. I see all of my local friends’ husbands through their eyes (and this is the most logical pool of options), and often the picture is not especially pretty, which isn’t surprising given the strain of young kids on a marriage. I suspect I would benefit from having a male friend or two, to shake up my perspective, but how does one go about that appropriately at this point in her life, especially as I don’t work outside of the home? Is a friendship with a man worth pursuing for its own sake?

Thanks,

Missing Good Male Friends

Dear Missing Good Male Friends,

I was ready to answer your question with a question: Is something lacking in your female friendships? But then I reread what you said at the beginning about your current friends: “These friendships provide essential sustenance for me, they fuel me through my days, my weeks. They are a constant presence; they shape much of who I am at the moment.” You also described these friendships as “deep and intense.”

Is there perhaps something you miss about the more casual nature of friendship with a man? This is not to say that friendships with men cannot also be deep and intense, but speaking in generalities, I wonder if you remember your friendships with men being refreshingly less intense and a welcome complement to your more complicated female relationships. Maybe you could use a few less intense female friendships in your life? I’ve often extolled the virtues of what I call the “close acquaintance” because there is something nice about friendships that are less intimate to round out the ones where we get more but more is expected of us in return.

I also wonder (and maybe I’m projecting) if part of what you miss about the Platonic friendships you mentioned is the specific and special time of your life–high school, college, and graduate school–as opposed to the maleness of those friends. The older I get, I miss college (never high school). Although I think of my college years fondly and they should make me smile, I also feel sad when I picture the campus, the dorm, and my friends (both male and female). I am so far from that time, and I will never experience anything quite like those four years. I’m nostalgic for the campus atmosphere, and I have regrets about not doing more in those four years, not seeing more, not trying different kinds of classes, traveling more, and not enjoying more of the freedom available to my single, childless self at the time. But like I said, maybe I’m projecting.

There’s no great answer if some of what I said about this nostalgia for that time of life is true. We can’t go back, and the idea of pursuing a friendship with a man simply because you miss those kinds of friendships strikes me as way too risky.

So I’ve answered your final question in a way that might disappoint you. You asked, “Is a friendship with a man worth pursuing for its own sake?” I wish I could say something more encouraging and free-spirited, but the truth is that I don’t think the benefits outweigh the risks. You also asked, “How does one go about that appropriately at this point in her life, especially as I don’t work outside of the home?” I can’t think of a way. I’m sorry, but I can’t.

You provided two examples of men with whom you enjoyed completely Platonic relationships. I agree that it’s possible to have friendships with men where there is not one iota of sexual chemistry or anything remotely inappropriate under the surface. However, it’s also true that many romances started with that kernel of friendship, and that is where the risk becomes a real concern. We can’t ignore the fact that non-Platonic feelings could develop and that’s where the benefits versus the risks has to be considered very seriously.

I can’t help but think how I would feel if my husband decided to pursue a friendship with a woman that did not include me as part of the equation. To put it bluntly, I would be devastated. We have couple friends and I consider several of those men my friends, and he feels the same way about the women. However, if he pursued any of those friendships on his own, or worse, found a new female friend who had no connection to me, I would definitely be worried about my marriage. And then I might throw some plates against the wall.

I want you to know that as a fellow writer who works from home or a coffee shop, I understand what you’re saying about having little contact with men and missing those types of friendships. I wish I had a more uplifting answer for you than this very long version of “Sorry, but that ship has sailed.” Perhaps some of the readers will disagree with me. I’ll leave the floor open for others to give their two cents.

Thank you for sending this question as I know you’re not alone.

Nina

FULL RES - Badzin-03 copy-1Nina is a contributing writer for Tcjewfolk.com, Kveller.com, and Great New Books. Her essays have appeared regularly at Brain, Child Magazine, The Huffington Post, The Jewish Daily Forward, and have been syndicated in The Times of Israel as well as Jewish newspapers across the country. She lives in Minneapolis with her husband and four children. Contact her on Twitter @ninabadzin and on her blog.

 

 

 

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48 comments

  1. Donna Trump says:

    Oh, Nina. I DO see where you are coming from, and my best male friend is gay, so maybe I can’t comment about the “friendship to more” thing. But men are so different from we ladies, and I do love that difference. I understand your writer’s dilemma. In my experience, men give different and valuable feedback on writing. What if she got involved in a mixed-gender writing group? She’d have the company and quirks of men, in a kind of public way, and she could limit the individual social interaction if she felt it was at all threatening to her marriage.
    Donna Trump recently posted…Cross-Country Book Club: War and PeaceMy Profile

  2. Nina, I think of summer camp the way you think of your time in college. That said, I had a lot of guy friends – men I have known since I was a wee thing, between the age of 8 and 20 years old. These friendships came with me into the marriage, rightly or wrongly. Growing up, I often had one or two best girlfriends and a bevy of guy friends, none of whom I was interested in any way shape or form. My husband never felt threatened by these men, nor did he need to as they were/are more like brothers to me.

    I do think it is possible to be “just friends” with a man, but I agree that these relationships should not involve a lot of activities where one’s spouse is not included. Someone’s feelings are bound it get hurt in a situation where one person is actually intentionally excluded.
    renee Schuls-Jacobson recently posted…What I Wore – The Parade of HatsMy Profile

    • Nina says:

      That is a good point about being intentionally excluded. And I do think that friends that came before the marriage a different category. Still, in that case I would feel funny about it if I were never ever included. I don’t think there is right or wrong here per se– just reality of exactly what you said– feelings get hurt and marriage is serious business so perhaps an area where it makes sense to tread more lightly before engaging in a new relationship that could become a problem.

      p.s. totally get it about camp. Many of my friends feel that way. I went to girls’ camp so did not have that experience.
      Nina recently posted…Does Marriage Mean the End of Certain Friendships?My Profile

  3. Kristen says:

    I’m not the person who wrote this question, but I easily could have. This very thing has been on my mind a lot lately. And man, I’ll be honest, I have such truly mixed feelings about the possible answers. That ambivalence comes from so many sources. In the “no way” camp includes the reasons my parents split and how I would feel if my husband somehow started a random relationship with a woman outside his circle of work/our friends. In the “why not?” camp, the recollection of the wonderful kinds of male friends I had in high school all the way through law school/while working as an attorney, the message I’m trying to send to my own daughter that male AND female friendships have value (especially in their diversity), and knowing that I could maintain a platonic relationship, inasmuch that I trust my own husband to do the same (i.e. he runs with a woman friend occasionally simply because I cannot run that kind of distance like they can; it does not bother me one iota). I think men offer things in friendship that women, quite frankly, cannot, and I certainly miss it and struggle with the same things as this woman. How to get around that without some of the quagmires you note–or at least the potential/appearance–I’m not sure, but I think that if a marriage is strong and stable, and there is nothing missing in a truly intimate/emotional way, and that both spouses are open to and about it, I feel like it could work, especially if it is somehow initiated through an interest not shared by the spouse (writers group like commenter mentioned above, volunteering, book club, some kind of class/cohesive group that meets regularly, etc.). Yes, easier said than done, perhaps. Great question, and your answer is indeed a thoughtful one, Nina. I’ll be thinking about this for a while (and intend to ask my husband what he thinks)!
    Kristen recently posted…A Decade of BirdsMy Profile

    • Nina says:

      I’m still thinking about this too and I wrote the answer last week and read the question the week before. So yeah, it’s not a black/white kind of thing for sure! Your comment is great and I appreciate you breaking down the pros and cons and the “maybe easier said than done.” I think that’s where I came down in the end. Yes, I see the value. But I also see the risk so doing it well without harming the marriage in any way is doable but hard. I loved the idea of the group– writing, book club, etc.
      Nina recently posted…Does Marriage Mean the End of Certain Friendships?My Profile

  4. Peggy says:

    A friendship with a guy – I enjoy the company of men more, mostly because I am not a particularly fussy woman, not interested in fashion or celebrities, and it’s hard to find another woman who just wants to talk about everything else. Plus there is the drama – whining, crying, needy women are so exhausting. I am married, and my husband (unfortunately) gets jealous, so even a casual text with one of our guy friends causes a stir. But I connect so much better with them!

    • What??? You really think all women whine and cry all the time? OHHH – this hurts my feelings – and it makes me want to SCREAM and DRUM MY HEELS and and and AARGGHHHH!

      Only, tears always make my mascara run. Can you believe how hard it is to find really reliable mascara? I should probably get my eyelashes tinted – but then what about when one falls out – you look like you have a big cockroach leg on your face. Eeuww, icky.

  5. Melissa says:

    I’m with Nina on this. I have male friends from before my relationship with my husband that are platonic. Most of the guys are gay anyway. Since being with him, the only male friends I’ve made after that time have been either gay or from a couple we connected with. Either my friends’ husbands or my husband’s friends. So it’s not something I pursued on my own. I have male friends at work, but I made an effort to connect with their wives.
    If my husband has female friends, it’s the same way…they’re part of couples that we’re both friends with. He wouldn’t just go hanging out with new women he met on his own. And if he did, that would definitely give off some red flags.
    Melissa recently posted…Book Review: The Light Between OceansMy Profile

      • I totally agreed with you and with Melissa. I mentioned on FB that my sister wrote about this online at one point (she got a lot of hate mail, some of it vicious), and one of the dividing lines she mentioned was, “Do I confide in this person?” I thought that was an astute observation she made.

        When you confide in a person, you create an intimate bond with them. That’s more than just an acquaintance, and I think that’s the kind of relationship that can compete with a marriage.

        When I was single, I was always the type who was somewhat tomboyish and had lots of male friends I hung out with. I have a few, very few male friends from my past with whom I’m in touch currently. Interestingly, they aren’t the ones I was closest with before my marriage. Those WERE some of the people I could confide in and so on. And when I look back on them, in almost every case, at some point during the course of our friendship, one of us had a crush on the other. Sometimes the attraction went both ways, just never at the same time. Staying in touch after I married just never seemed like a good idea.

        The only men I pretty much talk to these days are relatives, people from work (about work, pretty much), neighbors (about general neighborly stuff) and the spouses of my girlfriends, usually in their presence and only about non-private issues.

        I get what the woman who wrote in meant about wanting guy-style friendship. And maybe that casualness you mentioned is what she’s looking for. Or maybe (this is what it was for me) she has interests and hobbies more often shared by men. But can she schmooze with her husband or male relatives for that?
        Rebecca Klempner recently posted…Need a little reading material for the intermediate days of Passover?My Profile

  6. I agree with you, Nina. That said, I understand the interest in having male friends — my best friends in high school and college were both guys. I think in theory male-female frienships should work and maybe they do when you’re young and unmarried. But I think missing the *idea* of having close guy friends is not a good reason to seek out a male friend. I have met men at coffee shops and have chatted with them there, but I would be pretty surprised (and discouraging) if they chose to contact me outside of that setting — in the name of friendship. Like you, I’d be upset if my husband had a woman friend he got texts/emails/calls from and met with alone. As you say, that ship has sailed.

    All that said, if I met a man and a friendship developed naturally, and my husband knew all about it, and it was perfectly innocent, then I don’t think it would be a big deal necessarily. But to seek it for the sake of being friends with a man? Maybe I’m jaded but I wonder if more’s going on? (This has happened to more than a couple of my friends.)

    In any event, I had the same idea as the first commenter of a mixed-gender writing group (or other type of gatherig), something I’ve thought of myself. For me, I’d leave male friendships to group situations.
    Julia Munroe martin recently posted…I Always Cry at THE ENDMy Profile

    • Nina says:

      Thanks for this thoughtful addition to the conversation, Julia. I also totally get what she is missing and craving. But . . . I still come down on the “be careful” side here.

      I also have some guy coffeeshop buddies. Actually had to stop going to a few of the places, not because they were flirtatious. It really wasn’t like that. More because they are very very chatty and I can’t get any work done. I’ve never felt chased out of a coffee shop because of a woman! Sort of off topic and a general observation but felt worth sharing. 😉
      Nina recently posted…Does Marriage Mean the End of Certain Friendships?My Profile

      • Actually, I had the same problem (with chatty guys) and I find it interesting that in my area most of the coffee shop regulars seem to be guys. One place I dreaded (and finally stopped) going, worrying one particular chatter might be present. The only time I felt chased out of a coffee shop by a woman was by one who was constantly on her phone, making loud business calls.
        Julia Munroe martin recently posted…I Always Cry at THE ENDMy Profile

  7. Dakota Nyght says:

    Letterwriter – I don’t think you’re sexist or shallow. You’ve clearly given a lot of thought to this, but… the last line of this letter is challenging for me. “Is a friendship with a man worth pursuing for its own sake?” Would we phrase a question about women the same way? Rewritten: Is a friendship with a woman (and the connotation of our fickle, flighty selves) worth pursuing for its own sake?

    I can’t help but think – shouldn’t we be pursuing friendships because we’re interested in the human being that’s the other half of it and not because of their gender?

    I’m not arguing the point that the stereotypical man and women are different. I agree with it and think that all genders bring something different to the table – but if we think about that as a function of their peoplehood and not their gender – in my opinion the equation changes.

    So to a point, I agree with Nina. Identify what, exactly, it is that you feel you’re missing. (I do think it’s wonderful that you can clearly define what you need in a friendship.)

    About finding and making those friendship then… it’s unfortunate that opposite-gendered relationships are so suspect. My partner loves racketball. I do not. If he were to find a partner to play with (woman or man) I’d be thrilled. That is a desire of his I do not and cannot meet. Would I need some reassurance? Yes, but I also have to have trust – because in the end, he’s his own individual and I cannot control his choices.

    That being said, we live in relationships and it’s best to nurture them. So I would talk to your partner about your thoughts and what you’re hoping to get out of a male-gendered friendship. See what they’re comfortable with, or not. And then decide if you can live with that. Really, what is going to be appropriate for your situation is different from what would be appropriate for Nina, or my own situation.

    Best of luck to you and I hope you find what you’re seeking. 🙂
    Dakota Nyght recently posted…#The100DayProject – Short Poems IllustratedMy Profile

    • Nina says:

      Dakota,

      Great answer. I agree that every situation is different. All I can offer is a general sense, and right or wrong, I would not want my husband to have a friendship with a woman that did not include me. (He feels the same way about me.) We trust each other 100%. Still wouldn’t like it.

      I appreciate your answer though and I’m sure our letter writer does, too! I knew many people would feel differently from and I hoped as many possible would respond to give another take. Thank you!
      Nina recently posted…Does Marriage Mean the End of Certain Friendships?My Profile

  8. Jeffrey says:

    I trust my wife to show good judgement when it comes to establishing, maintaining, and ending friendships. The gender of her friends is a nonissue for me. I want her to have great friends – I want them to be kind, supportive and insightful. Let’s say she meets a man at a watercolor painting class and they become friends. She is not the only one to benefit. The whole family benefits when members are doing things they enjoy with close friends.

  9. Fabulous question and comments. This topic is, in fact, what spurred the last novel I wrote. It comes as no surprise that the kernel for that idea occurred after a college reunion when I thought how strange it is, culturally, that as a married woman, you’re mostly not “allowed” to have relationships with some of the very people who helped form who you are, people who played pivotal, life-changing roles in your growth — i.e. male friends, and even ex’s — or that it’s not socially acceptable to have male friends at all if you’re married (the non-couple variety).

    In some ways, this social more is another form of cultural labeling/discrimination. A person is a person, and it shouldn’t matter what gender he or she is if that person is a good friend. But alas, it isn’t a perfect world with such cut-and-dry definitions, and so we are faced with the one alternative you suggest: weighing risks and rewards. I miss having groups of male friends, too, but my husband is my best friend and THAT is something I would never want to jeopardize. When I turn the tables – like you – I wouldn’t be keen on him having a female friend with whom I wasn’t included.
    Melissa Crytzer Fry recently posted…Desert Bouquet IIIMy Profile

  10. Mary Koppel says:

    This may be the result of being married for more than 30 years, but we each brought friendships into our marriage, and for the most part – have sustained those through the years. Our closest couple friends are friends with each of us and we’ll still get together even if one or another is out of town.
    But if for some reason I no longer had my male friends, I’d probably join a league or a team or a writers’ group or take a course where I could regularly interact with an array of diverse people – and still come home to my best friend – my husband.

    • Nina says:

      Mary! I think with friends that came before the marriage or friends made within it (as with other couples) that’s different. I have lots of those and I got the sense that the letter writer does too. She wants to make new male friends though. I do think a group, league, etc. may be the way to go!
      Nina recently posted…Does Marriage Mean the End of Certain Friendships?My Profile

  11. Laura Schmieg says:

    My very best, closest friend is a straight guy. Our friendship developed after we were both married. In my opinion, here’s what I’ve felt has made it a successful relationship:

    1. There is complete openness and honesty with spouses all around, and although the guys are causal friends and the women are as well, it’s universally recognized that the primary friendship is between the two of us.
    2. Our spouses both know that they set the ground rules. If his wife decided that she wasn’t comfortable with us spending time alone together, then what she says goes. There’s nothing secretive about the relationship that I keep from my husband, either.
    3. I have had a frank conversation with my friend’s spouse, making it clear that what I value is my friendship with her spouse, and nothing more. I am not interested in being a part of her marriage, a parent to her children, or crossing any line there whatsoever.

    Here’s what baffles me the most: I truly love my friend. Any relationship beyond friendship would mean the destruction of his home and family, the destruction of my home and family, not to mention the collapse of the friendship. We are both happily married. That’s the context.

    • Jeffrey says:

      Thank you for providing an example of how these friendships can work. You are fortunate to have a spouse who is secure enough in your marriage to allow you the freedom to benefit from a meaningful friendship with a man. Whatever risk there is that your platonic friendship might turn romantic, I think, is outweighed by the benefit it provides to you and, by extension, to your marriage. Your marriage is proof that a deep, abiding trust in your spouses physical and emotional fidelity can provide the foundation for each spouse to remain open to relationships that can provide great personal fulfillment and satisfaction.

      • Laura Schmieg says:

        Yes, Jeffrey! When I married my spouse I made a commitment to him exclusive of any other non-platonic relationship. Any man that I meet in any context, whether it be work, the gym, or a coffee shop is off limits in that way. My marriage is not dependent on whatever other opportunity might present itself. It stands on commitment and the life we’ve built together.

  12. Nina says:

    Nina! Great answer!!!! I do have a couple of close male friends and I am married! My husband knows all my male friends and they have started a relationship with my husband. These were male plutonic friendships before I met my spouse. I see both sides of this…. And understand the risks with a “new” friend… If her husband is ok with it… Ok… If not she should think about how it would effect her marriage! Also she could start a writers group or monthly breakfasts… To meet new potentially male writers… I hope she gets lots of thoughts for the readers!

  13. Nina~
    This one struck a chord with me. I had/have a great male friend I met while we were both single, over 20 years ago. We had a grand time chatting about current events and have similar senses of humor, and thus laughed a lot.
    We attended each other’s weddings and made valiant efforts to befriend each other’s spouses and welcome them into our fold of friends.
    But, here’s what happens with married couple friendships, the women gather in one room or end of the table while the men gather in another – mostly. What bums me out about this is that my husband gets the better end of the deal in this particular case. He gets to hang and laugh with my/our guy friend. And truly, albeit not unkindly, my friend’s wife is just not as interesting.
    But, I cannot be the only woman hanging with the guys out by the barbecue while the women are in the kitchen making salads and minding the children. Plus, I know it’s rude to re-hash inside jokes or venture into conversations with another woman’s husband on topics that disinterest her or make her feel left out.
    So, I enjoy chatting with him a bit when all the couples are in the same room together. But it’s not the same. Never will be. And that must be okay because I want to honor my friend’s marriage over my nostalgia.

  14. Rivki Silver says:

    I’m so fascinated by the connection you made between the college phase of life and having friends of the opposite sex! Since I delved into Orthodoxy immediately following college, I assumed that having same-sex friends was exclusive to my new social circles where having male friends was much less common.

    After about ten years of having exclusively female friends, it’s still somewhat surprising to me that I don’t really miss having male friends, though I had many in college and high school. I prefer female friendship now and its relative lack of complications, at least sexually speaking. Opposite sex friendship may work for other people, but I would feel that the emotional intimacy of such a friendship would somehow infringe upon my marital relationship. Also, I’d rather not put myself in a position where I would ever think something like, “why doesn’t my husband understand me this way?”
    Rivki Silver recently posted…The dinnertime dilemmaMy Profile

  15. Joy says:

    Your advice is very sound, Nina, not to mention sympathetic / sensitive. And I’m not saying this because it’s easy for me to agree. I have long resisted your type of answer but I remember reading another blog a few months ago (I forget now where or who wrote it) but it was a good one and I know the writer was attacked for her views. But you’re right in saying that the risks far outweigh the benefits. Hearing that that ship has sailed is tough, but in reality, all we need to do is do what you did— reverse the situation and see how we would feel about it. In doing that, I’m left with nothing else but to agree and concede. Thank you for your voice of reason as always, my friend!
    Joy recently posted…My Journey to BlogHer SyndicationMy Profile

  16. Tamara says:

    I always had as many male friends as female. Some intense and some more fun and light, just as with females. With those men, I either dated them and it burned out the friendship, I dated them and it didn’t, or I didn’t date them at all. Either way, I’m still friends with many.
    In terms of making new male friends, it is hard. I meet so many adults through parenting and school and usually I ask the mother for a playdate. I wonder if it would be frowned upon to ask the father. I’m not against it myself! I just noticed that it’s harder for me to make male friends than it used to be.
    Tamara recently posted…The Darkest Point of the Night.My Profile

  17. Great question, and though the answer might not be universally appealing (perhaps), I completely agree with it. I am ultra careful to include my husband in friendships with men and he does the same with women. I like the laid-back relationships I have with men, but I’m happy that they are shared friendships and that the boundaries are never blurry.
    Jennie goutet recently posted…Attaining PerfectionMy Profile

  18. Allie says:

    I think this post touched a nerve – so many replies and opinions. For me, I’m not sure. I had tons of guy friends before my husband, but I guess, when thinking about it – I haven’t become friends with a guy, on my own, since I’ve been married. I don’t think my husband would care. But, if the shoe was on the other foot, I probably would.
    Allie recently posted…Being Fourteen, Then and NowMy Profile

  19. Sarah says:

    Fantastic post and comments. I’m not sure I agree with your answer but I’m not sure I disagree, either. Like others have mentioned, I had many guy friends before I was married. Now I have none. It wasn’t intentional, though. I am busy and caught up in so much with my family. If I met someone in a writing group or through a mutual friend, I think I could become friends with him without any problems arising from it. I guess I haven’t given it much thought. I will now, though. 😉

  20. One thing that struck me about the question was that the proposed friendship with a male sounded like it was so forced, as if it was a quota that needed to be met. “I need more friends who are neighbors or who worship at the same place as me or who are fellow alumni of XYZ University.” To me true, meaningful friendships evolve and can’t be forced.
    That being said, I completely agree that friendships between men and women can be complicated. The range of comments you have received confirms that and shows that there is probably no “right” answer.
    Mo at Mocadeaux recently posted…Reliable WinesMy Profile

  21. Excellent question and what great input everybody’s given in the comments! I like the idea of a writing group or something to give back the feel of the work buddies. I still have two male friends that I used to work with and will occasionally meet one of them for lunch but for the most part, our friendships are family-based now. Both of them have kids around my son’s age so we’ll all get together for bbqs or similar. My husband has never minded, but I realize that I might, if the situation were reversed, which probably means that I’m more jealous and insecure than he is. I’m also a lot more social than my husband is and that may have something to do with it as well.
    It’s funny – it seems like one of those things that shouldn’t matter, but can easily create doubt in a marriage and the marriage should, of course, come first.
    Kristi Campbell recently posted…The Last Day Before Being a Mom, and ThenMy Profile

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